Being a ExJW activist is a lot like marriage. The flaws always seem to overshadow strengths and saying “I’m sorry” is the only way to survive.
the girl next door
JoinedPosts by the girl next door
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117
Lloyd’s new book
by jwfacts ini see there has already been discussion over lloyd’s new book how to leave the jehovah's witnesses.
this includes discussion around his personality, motives and financial gains.
i have written a foreword for this book, because it is an important topic that has not been covered in such a complete format before.
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61
Two witness rule: Stop using it, its not working on JWs!
by StephaneLaliberte inmost jws don't see this as a problem.
they reason that.
just like the jws, the police will not convict a pedophile over the story of one victim alone, there must be collaborative evidence.
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the girl next door
If all JWs made the decision to immediately go to the police whenever they suspected or learned of any child sexual abuse, more abusers would find themselves prosecuted.
But it is probably safe to say that most JWs out of fear of congregational repercussions would elect to contact their elders first. Despite what the latest BOE letter instructs as far as actively informing members of their right to contact authorities, many if not most JWs will choose to protect the congregation and the JW organization by dumping their knowledge of abuse on the elders thus absolving themselves in their own minds of any culpability for non reporting of a crime to the authorities.
It is for this very reason, that it is frequently the BOE that must process these revelations or accusations of child sexual abuse. The reason they immediately contact headquarters is so that they can be instructed exactly how to proceed to protect themselves! There is no regard for the protection of the child who has been abused. If there was concern for the child, an immediate call to law enforcement would be made.
The JW organization is still very egocentric in protecting its image despite the onslaught of pressure from the outside exposing its harmful policies dealing with alleged abusers. Regardless of the “two witness rule” and how the BOE is instructed to proceed with the accused from a judicial standpoint, if they are designated by law as mandatory reporters, they are signing their own jail ticket if they choose to remain silent. WT will not come to their assistance.
Pointing to the “two witness rule” is a symptom of the entire epidemic. Most active JWs probably don’t even realize the rule is applied to accused child sexual abusers in their congregation. None of them know that if convicted those abusers will still be protected by the rule if they took a plea deal in court. (Which happens almost always) Plea deals do not equate guilt in WT world.
As far as law enforcement needing the cooperation of the congregation? Not necessary. All they need is an allegation. They will accomplish their job no matter who does or doesn’t cooperate.
When it comes to civil litigation, cooperation from the congregation against the accused would be extremely helpful. But that rarely happens unless members are put to test under oath or are required to act under subpoena less they face contempt.
The “two witness rule” is a gateway to a larger discussion of the failing nature of WT when it comes to protecting children from sexual predators amongst their ranks.
If former JWs or media choose to use that gateway, they should do so in a well informed and all inclusive manner. We can’t just say “you have a two witness rule that protects abusers”. Of course that won’t sway the majority of active JWs. We need to give them the whole story in all it’s complexity. But really how often will that opportunity ever present itself?
Media outlets and other online activist sites are doing an excellent job of exposing the dangerous WT practices stemming from the “two witness rule”. Unless we can match that information thoroughly when discussing the matter with active JWs, it would be better to simply direct their attention to those sources.
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61
Two witness rule: Stop using it, its not working on JWs!
by StephaneLaliberte inmost jws don't see this as a problem.
they reason that.
just like the jws, the police will not convict a pedophile over the story of one victim alone, there must be collaborative evidence.
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the girl next door
There were no witnesses to my daughters sexual abuse. The abuser was convicted and went to prison.
That being said, I understand your frustration. The statistics of actual abuse to conviction is extremely disheartening.
The issue with the “two witness rule” the JWs adhere to is that they are not judge, jury, executioner. It is not their place. When crimes are committed or alleged to have been committed, the proper arena to deal with those allegations is in a court of law.
JWs usurp the rule of law by shielding law breakers under a cover of the “two witness rule”
They also are not trained in any way to recognize that there are many “second witnesses” to be found and listened to in a court of law that are not necessarily human observers to a crime.
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Columbia, SC and Arleta, CA members - I need your help
by RunAwayDaughter inmy 18-year-old daughter in columbia, sc ran away to arleta, ca to move in with jw family.
they are living together with the mother's permission in her house along with 10 other family members.
she is surrounded by jws 24 hours a day, seven days a week.. is there anyone in the columbia area who would be willing to help me - maybe meet for a cup of coffee or facetime.
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the girl next door
Also, instead of pressuring her or letting her know your desperation, think about becoming a counterintelligent ally.
Let her know you wish the best for her, want to know she is well and happy, and you will do everything in your power to help her. Offer to forward her her birth certificate and SS card if she has one so that she can get proper identification in the state. Never make her feel you think she has been captured by a dangerous cult and you are desperate to rescue her. It will only alienate her and push you and everyone else who is worried about her away.
You told her you were looking at JwOrg. You should also look at jwfacts, avoidjw, jwsurvey, watchtowerdocuments. Don’t ram it down her throat, but find subtle ways to introduce to her what you learn. Ask her questions and see if she can answer.
Chances are she is completely blinded by love(infatuation) and her boyfriend is not really into the religion. But his family is and they will do everything to reign her in to also save their son.
The “Mexican” boy she is enamored with might be your greatest ally. You might think he is a good for nothing twat, but he also may be her ticket out of the cult. Maybe they don’t feel they have any options. Have you offered to accept him and your daughters relationship? Offer them an escape route from the cult? California is pretty great, but living with a dozen family members is like living with fish. Smells after 3 days.
Tell her to come home and bring him so you can all talk. See how committed to the religion he is. The family ties will be strong for him, but Hispanic boys do not shy away from possible better lives, especially away from cult patriarchs in the family.
I know it’s a lot to contemplate, but sometimes you have to think outside the box to save your loved ones.
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Columbia, SC and Arleta, CA members - I need your help
by RunAwayDaughter inmy 18-year-old daughter in columbia, sc ran away to arleta, ca to move in with jw family.
they are living together with the mother's permission in her house along with 10 other family members.
she is surrounded by jws 24 hours a day, seven days a week.. is there anyone in the columbia area who would be willing to help me - maybe meet for a cup of coffee or facetime.
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the girl next door
There are no temples. Maybe you mean congregations?
Don’t take this the wrong way. I understand your vexation. But she is 18. There little to nothing you can do. I would take solace in the fact she is surrounded by “Mexicans”. Some of the most solid and caring and binding connections stem from the Hispanic culture. She will be cared for like a princess.
Yes I know it’s an Alamo of JWs surrounding her. But again they aren’t going to sell her into sex trafficking or anything close. She is going to be love bombed and feel wonderful. She will likely meet a dashing young Mexican brother who can play the guitar and speak fluently in 2 languages. They may marry and have 3 or 6 kids. And about a decade from now, realize they are in a cult and pull the whole family out, all while rekindling her relationship with you.
You have to have hope. It’s a very real scenario.
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315
Pillowgate - John Cedars
by CitizenofEarth inis this true?
is this really true?!.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qirjv48c55m.
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the girl next door
Yes. Every single one of those scenarios expounded upon in those videos are an exact reaccounting of what was disclosed in Bethel judicial meetings. Bethelites as hard as it might be to imagine are even more repressed than the average rank and file JW. The guilt and pressure to be exemplary is 10 fold, so no wonder these poor kids are fucking their blankets. Sad really. The perfect masturbatory tool is the hand or fingers. Why are these kids so repressed that they have to rub against sheets or a pillow, as if not using their hands lessens their alleged “sin”?
In outside congregations of rank file JWs the young ones are doing anal and oral thinking that avoids the complications of “Pornea”. None of them are thinking twice about rubbing one out in the shower and the vast majority of boys are likely happy with their hand or a stealthy tube sock. When did sheets or pillows come into play? With Bethelites. They get creative because they know the housekeepers are checking for crusty socks. The outcry from the laundry department must have spurred some of the outline for these talks.
And the whole “adoption” dialogue was odd. What happened to befriending? Adoption carries a legal connotation. Bethel couples do not socialize much. They do their job, go to meetings, go home and hopefully fuck. There isn’t a lot of time to entertain “adopted” singles into the framework. Marriage mates that stray are falling into infatuation with opposite sex candidates in their work assignments. Couples in Bethel don’t attend room parties with drunk Bethelites. They just don’t. These affairs that this GB helper is referring to are happening on work assignment time. Married couples rarely have the same work assignments. Instead it is during their separate assignments they are playing out their infatuations usually with younger Bethel males in storage closets, rarely used elevators, or abandoned offices.
The vast majority of JWs in the rank and file world are not confined to the regiment of Bethel life. They aren’t fucking pillows. They aren’t cheating at Kingdom Hall cleanup days. They have vibrators and fleshlites, watch porn together and have no inhibitions about cheating with the opposite or same sex with full intentions of fucking and getting away with it. When men sit on another man’s lap and perform a reach around it has nothing to do with horseplay or an attempt to stimulate themselves selfishly or conjoined, it means they are gay. There is no attempt to explain away the actions as experimental or dangerous. They are gay. And so what?
Bethel is sex phobic, homo phobic and reality phobic. I wish every Bethelite could watch these videos and immediately walk out the back door and run home. Instead they are in for a 3 month to 4 year tour of duty through the sexual tight rope depending on how well they keep a secret.
The biggest sex freaks in the JW world are former Bethelites.
Imagine them as former JWs. ;)
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Pillowgate - John Cedars
by CitizenofEarth inis this true?
is this really true?!.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qirjv48c55m.
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the girl next door
I’m also going to add that considering the explanation of Porneia given in these videos, the vast majority of JWs have engaged in such and obviously never come out with it or felt the need to. Why is the GB making a plea to have people come forward with activities as benign as grinding? Most JW kids who have managed to get alone with the object of their desire have grinded when making out.
Hell, according to these assholes, every time I had a slumber party and cuddled with my girlfriends or we stroked each others hair which can be very arousing was an episode of Porneia.
Fuck these fuckers.
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Pillowgate - John Cedars
by CitizenofEarth inis this true?
is this really true?!.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qirjv48c55m.
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the girl next door
I’ve really just done some catching up on this recent “scandal”. It’s not surprising with the advent of social media and platforms like YouTube that it has gained as much attention as it has. Even then, a couple hundred thousand views is not that remarkable. That various outlets like the “talk soup” guy also picked up on it interesting. There certainly is comedic gold to be had with all of it.
Cedars did well bringing out the elephant in the room, that is WT prioritizing masturbation instead of the rampant child sex abuse issues they suffer from. But in fairness, the videos were directed at Bethelites and the issues Bethelites have are pornography, masturbation, flirtation, homosexuality and adultery. Pedophilia is more of a congregational elder/servant issue and even a Governing Body issue, though they cover the latter up extremely well.
All of the talking points stated in the male/female version of the videos are nothing new. They may seem shocking because they are now in video form for the world to see, but those exact same stories and scenarios were told over and over again at morning worship in Brooklyn. To the letter. Dan Sydlik could have written the scripts for those videos. They are the very words he spoke repeatedly at morning worship or family worship nights. And without fail, after relating those stories of homosexual experimentation or pornography use or adultery and even rampant masturbation shared or alone, there would be letters read of dismissal from Bethel family or disfellowshipping.
Those dismissed or excommunicated were named. We all knew who they were and what they had done because we just heard a lecture based on their behavior in explicit detail. Nothing has changed since Sidlik’s time. Just a different monkey carrying on his verbiage, and I’m sure there was one before Sydlik. Same stories. Different day. What is different is it has now leaked because of WT’s new love affair with video.
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Social Media
by Emily1987 inas some of you may remember from a previous post of mine, myself and my husband are in the process of fading.
we began our fade in jan 2017 and haven't been to a meeting since may 2017. to say this time has been a struggle is an understatement.
it has been a lonely time for us, losing all of our so called friends.
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the girl next door
I wish JWs would leave me alone. Instead they stalk me in the supermarket or other stores, they plague me at my residence and place of business. They use an alias in attempts to stalk me on social media. Why? It appears to be the antithesis of “shunning”. I’ve been DFd for 10 years and it still happens regularly. I’ve filed restraining orders, called 911, appeared in court, and have used personal body guards. Yet they persist. It’s like they don’t want me to move on by putting them far in my rear view mirror. They keep bothering me like a plague even when they went to great measures to finally extricate me in the first place.
Go away JWs. And count your blessings if they actually leave you alone.
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Printed Editions of Crisis of Conscience now Available...
by Newly Enlightened in...at barnes & noble.
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/crisis-of-conscience-raymond-franz/1128103683?ean=9780999499214.
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the girl next door
I ordered the hardback from amazon for @ $36. Only hours after it was available. While it said “in stock” I received an email saying it was out of stock and amazon would let me know when it was in stock and would be shipping.
A few days later other vendors are selling the hardback for $60 and $75 “in stock”.
Not sure what’s going on but it seems a lot like the toy collecting industry craze where comic book store owners scout every toy store at opening, buy up every collectible toy, then sell it in their shop with a 400% markup. There is a name for it, but it escapes me at the moment.
Someone bought up Amazons stock and is now selling it for a much higher price.?
Hopefully the market will be flooded soon and everyone can get a copy at fair market value.